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This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. 173 upvotes. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. We want that inside corner able to move. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. There are numerous ways to do this. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Caulk the gap. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. . The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. How did this project turn out? Hi David. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. I also used the Kerdi drain. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? 3. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. It's still applied to cement board. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. Yes. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. The site is called floorelf.com. Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower? - Terry Love Plumbing Advice It fell right off? The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. I still wet the walls first. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. . How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? I also used the Kerdi drain. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. The manual can be found here: http://floorelf.com/waterproof, I would say unless you are experienced in working with Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing membrane kit, then I would say work with an easier waterproofing approach, either liquid waterproofing or a combination of liquid and traditional waterproofing (plastic covering the wood frame). Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). Thanks. kerdi membrane over osb This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. They are square. Kerdi Questions and Answers - Kennedy Kitchens & Baths Like the example above. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. 120 sq feet including the floor. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. Can You Put RedGard On HardieBacker Board? - Next Modern Home If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. Hi.I have a unique situation. Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. I trust it and have never had a callback. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . Step 4: Place the Tile. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. The gridlines printed on the surface are beneficial for the installation process, also allowing for quick, neat cuts with a utility knife. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Redgard is a similar product. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. But a mortar bed does have advantages. bathroom - Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard - Home Improvement Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. 1. Wedi Board vs Cement Board vs Kerdi Board - The Ultimate Home Living Blog A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Do you have any pictures? I imagine we could share some good stories. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. . Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. No, that doesn't sound right. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? The mortar does . First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. We sponge water onto the cement board. Can Kerdi membrane be installed over painted drywall? All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. When installing KERDI with . I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. . Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. rev2023.3.3.43278. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. ! Good luck with your project. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. Personally, I like standard drywall. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Step 1: Measure the area. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? The shower is ready for tile. Think about movement. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Kerdi Membrane Installation (Step-by-Step Installation Guide) True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. The colour is different. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Step 2: Determine the room's center. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? New England. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts.

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